Residential real estate interest is going up right now. How will this volatility affect the self-storage market? A huge word that’ll be coming over the next few years is affordability. Is this unit affordable to you? You need to be aware of the location and the price per square foot. Take note of what you can afford but also don’t be too conservative.
Join Stacy Rossetti as she talks about how this residential market change will affect self-storage over the next few years. Learn that real estate works in cycles. This is nothing new. Find out what you need to take note of when looking at a unit or facility. Understand the market more closely today!
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How The Residential Real Estate Market Volatility Will Affect The Self-Storage Market Over The Next Few Years
Welcome to my new students. This is where I teach and go over my opinions. I show you what I know. This is where I go over your next steps and things like this. Thank you for hopping on. I appreciate it. I talked to so many amazing people and I love learning people’s stories. I had the Storage Nerds doors open so if you are interested, you can go to StorageNerds.com and set up an appointment with me.
This is where I get to meet people, hear what your goals are, share your story and talk to people all across the country, which is cool. There are so many cool, amazing people. I love being able to meet you, hear your story and listen to what your goals are, not only in storage but also in life. There are so many different types of people out there. Thank you for your time for that. You can talk to me and ask me questions.
Residential Market Affects Storage
In this episode, what I wanted to talk about was the market. There are a lot of questions about the market. The truth is we have no idea what is going to happen. Everybody can sit there and try to look at the data with a cup of their opinion. I am one of these types of people that try to educate myself, not only on everything I am doing but on what is going to happen.
I followed very closely a lot of different data companies. I am one of these data nerds like Redfin, CoreLogic and a lot of real estate investing or outlets. I do not follow a lot of people on social media but I do watch a couple of YouTube people. I have been trying to keep on top of how the real estate market is going. I wanted to talk a little bit about that. I am in a private group for storage investors and there was a question that came up about this. There are some people out there that are talking about the market.
My topic is going to be, “How is the residential real estate market going to affect the storage industry?” I do not have graphs and charts or anything like this because you can go on to Redfin or CoreLogic and look at this. I wanted to show you a couple of people that I follow and listen to and I have been following for a while that are smart people in the industry.
I wanted to get your opinion too. I would love to hear what you all think about what is going to happen. Do me a favor and let me know what you think about the real estate market and what is going to happen or is this something that is not on your radar? Do you follow anybody? I would love to know who you follow. I would love to learn who everybody follows and see everybody’s opinions out there.
The truth is if you go onto YouTube and you type in residential real estate, you will get a ridiculous amount of videos coming up of people talking about real estate. If you talk about the real estate market and you google that or if you look on YouTube and try to watch videos, you get so many different types of videos. The truth is if you go into YouTube and you type in commercial real estate, hardly anything comes up. If you type in the storage industry or storage market, hardly anything comes up.
There are not a lot of people that get out there and talk about commercial real estate. I am not the person to do this but I would love somebody to be that person that is a commercial real estate guru or a commercial real estate market data person. Marcus & Millichap do some videos on this and webinars. I feel like Marcus & Millichap are so high level a lot of times. I go to all of their webinars and try to listen to their stats and data. A lot of times, I feel like the people that are in their webinars are always REITs. They are always super big players.
It would be great to have somebody out there in the world that represented the regular people, all of us. What is going to happen in the market? The truth is that I have been thinking this even before COVID because I know that the real estate market goes in cycles. Does anybody know typically how long the market is in an up cycle, down cycle or over average? Typically, what is the average of an up cycle and a down cycle?
Historical data says that over a century, an up cycle and a down cycle typically take this much time. We know that the real estate market is just a cycle. There are a lot of ups and downs. Since the pandemic, there has been nothing like this ever. When you start looking at data, you will see data going up and down like this. In the last number of years, it is starting to go down. It has been so volatile but typically, a real estate market will last anywhere from 8 to 12 years on an up cycle and then a down cycle.
Since 2008 or 2009 in an up cycle, this cycle has taken a long time. Sometimes, it is over around eight years. Sometimes, 10 years to 12 years. This has been a long cycle. The question is what is going to happen in the next number of years? Everybody knows that the interest rates are going up on the residential side. They went up by 50 basis points. I do not know if you were in Facebook groups or not. You tell me what you are seeing out in the world. I am in one Texas Facebook group for real estate investors. There was a post about a person that got a loan on an investment property. He’s paying 6.6%, 7% interest and put 20% down. That is a high-interest rate.
Don’t Pass Up Deals
It is not high in comparison to what the historical data shows. Back in the day, it is way up high but it is high compared to what typically normal people know. In my mind, I am thinking, in terms of storage facility owners, what is going to happen to the market throughout the next number of years in the storage industry? That is the question of the day. I got off a coaching call with a student. I would have gone into this with him and given him my two cents but our coaching call was coming to an end and I had to jump off the call.
He is looking at a storage facility in New York in the Finger Lakes area. It is a 90-unit facility. It was about 12,000 or 13,000 square feet. It was making a little bit over $100,000 a year. The owner wants $800,000. For all of my students that are joining, you are all going to come to the bootcamp so you will be able to see me run numbers. I am not going to run numbers in this episode because I want to talk about this.
If you run the numbers on an 800-unit facility that is making $100,000, that is 100-units. Typically, that facility came out to the value of like $900,000 at a 6% cap. That was one thing that I talked to my student about. A lot of the question of the day when you run deal analysis is, “What is the typical market cap rate going to be?” We were running those numbers are the 6% cap because it is New York and New York tends to be more expensive. We were looking at it this way. The Finger Lakes area, if you know this area, is a tertiary market.
I do know this area very well. It is very beautiful. I had a student buy a facility in Hampton. I remember the numbers that she had as well as too. That is why I know the typical area is around a 6% cap. We were running the number of $800,000 purchases at a 6% cap. It was making $108,000. It was 12,000 square feet and 99 units or so. It came out to a valuation of $895,000. The taxes were about $25,000, $23,000. There were no utilities or anything like that.
We are looking at the numbers. He was saying, “Would you buy something like this?” For me, I see typical income-producing property deals. When you see that, you want to hold onto those. That is a good buy-and-hold property. We were looking at the competitive analysis. All my students essentially fill out a sheet where you do the competitive analysis. You look at all the competitors and in the area, there were a couple of competitors. We were looking at climate control versus non-climate control.
If you see an income-producing property deal, that’s a good deal. Those are the type of deals that you want to hold onto.
He said that he called all the competitors and the non-climate control was not filled but the climate control was filled. Maybe in New York, people want heated storage for the winter or air-conditioning in the summer. I am not 100% sure but one of his competitors was Bolt. If you know Bolt, it is a bigger company that owns a whole bunch of storage facilities, typically in New York but they are spreading out. They are going East and all over. I know the owner and he lives in Georgia. There was one other competitor whose prices were way above everybody else’s.
There were at a 10×10. It was $125 a month whereas everybody else was $60, $70 or $80 a month. These were for non-climate-controlled units. My student had said that he called all the competitors. Some of the competitors have climate control and non-climate control. Some of them just had non-climate control. All the ones that had non-climate control were not 100% full. They were anywhere from 60%, 70%, 80% and 90% full but if you had climate control, everything was full. My thought for that, first of all, is, “What does New York call for? Does New York call for climate control?”
Typically, overall in the industry, it is an 80/20 rule. You tell me if you see something different but I see 80/20. 80% is non-climate control and 20% is climate control. There might be a little bit more climate control coming out but there would not be any more than a 70/30 split. Typically, most of it is going to be non-climate control. Maybe in that area, it calls for climate control. In terms of the market, I am thinking of competitive analysis and looking at that deal. I told them, “Put an offer in because he wants to sell his facility,” even if the offer is not what he is asking for.
He is asking for $800,000. The student was a little bit hesitant because it is not a smoking hot rocking deal. The truth is your very first deal is not like a home run. Your very first deal is like, “Let’s get our foot in the door and get this going. Let’s create some momentum, get out there and do this.” If you sit there and you are waiting for your very first deal to be a smoking hot deal, which I see a lot in my students and I am like, “Put the thing under contract. It does not matter. Let’s try to figure out what we are doing,” you miss out on a lot of opportunities. The truth is there are a lot of people out there that would buy that facility.
It is at a 6% cap worth $900,000. You are going to pay at most $800,000 because that is what the guy was asking for. When we looked at the competitive analysis, you could take it from $0.72 a square foot to a minimum of $0.80 a square foot but maybe even more. You are going to create that appreciation over time and have a little bit of money on the backend when you sell the facility. It was going to go from $800,000 to $1.2 million in a couple of years. That is a good buy-and-hold facility. What I am saying, first and foremost, before we get to what the market is, is that when you have come across deals and even if it is an okay deal, it could be a good buy-and-hold strategy.
That is what we want to look at. You do not want to pass up a deal even if you think it is an okay deal. I have one student in StorageNerds that was a female and she was like, “I am going to go out there and find some deals.” In the first year, she bought three facilities and every deal she found was not smoking deals but okay deals. She is about to sell one. She has had them for years. She is going to make a couple hundred thousand dollars on it by selling it.
That is a great deal. Do not pass deals up that you do not think are going to be good. In regards to the market, you are going to have to consider a deal like this in New York that we find as an okay deal. I would be knowing that I am going to have to hold on to this deal until after we get past what happens in the next number of years so we can see what is going to happen. Is the storage industry going to cool?
Storage Industry Pre-COVID
In my opinion, when COVID hit, we own deals that are smaller secondary or tertiary market facilities. We were already virtual before even COVID hit. We already had everything. We were 100% virtual. Everybody went online to make a reservation. We have phone support and boots on the ground people that go and manage our facilities for us. When COVID hit, we did not have that big of a deal because a lot of storage facilities in the industry were not contactless. You already know this. I talked to one lady and she works at one of the big REITs.
She wants to buy her facility. She works at a facility that has 722 units. She is the office person. If you come in and sign the contract or you want to pay your bill, she is the one that does that. She has to clean out all 722 units. She overlocks and underlocks. It is a huge facility. She makes $13 an hour doing that. She is running around like a crazy person all week long and works Monday through Friday. That is not contactless. Even some of the bigger players still are not contactless. You still have to go in and sign the contract because I had talked to her and that is what they do. You have to come in and sign the contract.
My point is that when COVID hit, we did not have this issue at all because we were already contactless. Also, everybody started freaking out about payments and stuff, especially on the residential rent side. I do not know if anybody has been in the industry that long but we had this huge discussion in the industry about tenant rights like, “What can we do in this industry, in case somebody does not want to pay? Can we kick them out still? Should we evict them?” There is this whole discussion that came up.
That came up for us as well too. We had 1,000 doors at the time. Out of the 1,000 doors, we had 20 or 30 people that did not want to pay their $50 or $100. Out of 1,000 doors, we only had 30 people max that did not want to pay. What Pete did was he came up with a form that said, “Your payment is in forbearance. You can make payments on it over the next few months.” He was super nice about it. He did not kick anybody out. We did not do any auctions. We were nice people. We were like a typical mom-and-pop shop. We did not kick anybody out. We worked with everybody. Everybody made their payments. Out of 30 people, 2 or 3 people did not make their payments.
We did not have any auctions or anything. We had no issues. When COVID hit, it kept on going like it was normal for us. Luckily, we were already virtual and contactless. We immediately came up with some payment thing that everybody can choose who did not want to do it. We emailed everybody in the software and let everybody know, “If you had any issues at all, please let us know.” We were worried that the next time the month came around, how many payments were going to go through? How many payments could we pay? We have to see.
I remember that next month, we were all worried about how many payments were going to go through. The truth is that 80% went through and then 20% do not go through. From the 1st, until the 6th or 7th, whenever we do our overlock, we are hounding everybody and trying to get everybody to pay. Everybody pays except for maybe 3% to 4%. That 3% or 4% goes into overlock and then works until the 15th because then they get charged another fee. That is how it is.
Our phone support people’s main job is to make sure everybody pays. By the 23rd, when we start the auction process, everybody is paid because they get an email like, “I’m letting you know the auction process has started,” and then everybody pretty much pays except for a couple of people that do not do that. During COVID, nothing for us changed. We are like a mom-and-pop shop and storage facility owners. With that, throughout the next number of years, during the COVID time, we see that if you have it together internally, people are going to be okay with paying $50, $100 or $150 a month.
We do not have a lot of units over $150. This is the key. We do not have a lot of climate control units where people are paying $150, $250 or $300 per month. We have not bought facilities that have those size units. My point of this whole story is that going forward in the market when you look at facilities and what size your facilities have, the price and size of the units are going to be key over the next years. In my opinion, it is going to be a lot harder for people to be paying for $250 and $300 units. I want you to keep that in mind when you get out there and start looking for units.
Market Change & Affordability
We were looking at this one in New York. The owner of the facilities said, “All my climate control units are all full and my non-climate control units are not full.” The question is how is the market going to shift over the next years? What types of units are people going to want and be able to pay for? What I do know in the industry is that climate control units are expensive. As we go through the correction of whatever happens, which do not know what is going to happen, I pay attention very heavily to the residential market. There are a lot of price drops.
When you look at facilities, the price and size of the units are going to be key over the next couple of years.
I do not know how much the correction is going to be but there will be a little bit of correction. You can see that the mortgage interest rates are going up. You also know that the federal government owns a lot of property. The federal government has control of that property. The federal government came in years ago, tried to fix things, screwed them up and they are coming back in again to try to fix it up again because that is how it works. Over the next years, you are going to see the government come in and try to correct some stuff.
We have to go through that. Think about how the mortgages are going to be and what people are going to be able to afford. I am going to tell you, over the next years, the word of the year is affordability. It hardly is. A lot of people are saying, “Can I afford that?” I feel that the word affordability is going to be a very important word over the next years, in terms of budget for yourself, what you purchase and the property.
I feel like prices are getting out of hand. We have a food crisis, the mortgage crisis and all this stuff happening. Long story short, my opinion is that you want to pay attention to what your price per unit is going to be. Remember, in the investing world and I come from the investing world, all these investors want to push those numbers. I get it because I was in that world. I rehabbed 100 homes. You want to push those numbers because your budget for your construction is way over. You are like, “Let’s put it on the market for more and see if somebody will buy it.”
A lot of people in the storage world think this way as well too like, “Let’s push those numbers. The REITs are paying attention to what can the market’s demand be at. What can we pitch those numbers to see?” There is nothing wrong with that because you are running a business so that is how it is. There is going to be a point where the number is not going to work anymore and then it is going to have to come down. What is the number? I do not know. It is different in every market. You have to keep in mind what can people forward in the area and market that you are in. That is going to be the question of the year.
When you get out and look for facilities, look for what areas you should be focused on. Keep in mind how much is the price per square foot or what the unit is going to be. I am going to go over in the bootcamp the three different types of facilities that we are seeing. I am seeing markets where mom-and-pops like me did not raise the rent before COVID because they are nice people and they do not want to raise the rents like us. COVID hit and they did not raise the rents. They helped a lot of people. After COVID, they are like, “I am going to raise rents.”
They cannot raise the rent high enough because you cannot double or triple the rent. Over the last years, did not raise the rent so they missed out on all that opportunity. They are trying to play catch up but they cannot because then it would double or triple the rent. You cannot triple the rent and be like, “Sorry.” You’ll piss everybody off. As a mom-and-pop shop, I do not want to piss anybody off. I want people to stay but at the same time, I also want to run a business. That is how my mentality is. I am sure that’s how a lot of people here are. There is a fine line between pushing the rents and keeping people happy.
The bigger players are like, “The market calls for this. I am putting this in. That is it. You can stay or leave.” That is why they have so much turnover and it is true. Bigger players have a lot of turnovers. They do not stay very long. Whereas secondary and tertiary owners like us have got people since we have been doing it. We have people that stayed and they have been there for many years. In our very first facility, we have people that have been for so long. We know them and they know us. In the very beginning in our very first facility, we were down there all the time trying to clean the thing up and it would be like, “This is Stacy. I am the owner.”
Is The Market Too High?
Now, we do not do that. We know a lot of the people in this facility. My point is that you have to be cautious about the types of facilities that you buy. The ones that I am seeing are the ones that are going to be very good buys or the ones that have not caught up to what the market is but is the market too high? Chris, my acquisitions person and myself, put an offer on a facility for $1.1 million. We are working out the negotiation contract with the owner. His rate is $1.10 per square foot, which should be at $1.66.
The question is should we raise those rates to $1.66? That is a lot of raising right there or should we be more cautious and not raise them? We guesstimated $1.50. I said, “How about $1.50? That is a good price for us to raise the rates too.” You do not want to look at the rates and be like, “$1.66, yes.” What is going to happen in the next years? I am not sure. Is the market going to keep going up or not? All I know is I ran my numbers at $1.50, even though it called for $1.66. That gives me a little bit of a buffer just in case. Maybe over time if I hold onto this thing, it will get to that rate but at least, I know I am being conservative.
Another thing too, some people in the ministry are very scared about what is to come. There are all different types of people that invest in the industry. I love this industry because there are mom-and-pops like me and then there is the middle of the road and then huge REITs. Some people get in and they are like me. They are like, “I want to live in an RV, travel and run my facilities.” Some people are like, “I want $100 million in an asset. That is what I want. I want to go big or go home.”
There is nothing wrong with any of those. I can tell you that the people that have $100 million in assets are sweating a little bit. What does the market call for? What is going to happen in the market in the next years, especially if you own these huge primary market facilities and are banking on getting $250 a month per unit at 80% full? I would be sweating too if I was there but I am banking on people’s spending $100 on average. It is a lot less risky than $250 on average per month.
The whole point of my spiel is that you have to be more conservative about the types of facilities that you buy over the next years. The location is going to be very important, the price per square foot and the price that you charge that unit and then also the location of where you buy them. In tertiary markets, you will be fine because there are not enough storage facilities in tertiary markets. Typical secondary markets could be fine. The primary markets where they are over-saturated and overbuilt are the ones where the owners are going to be sweating a little bit over the next years. This is all my opinion.
Q&A
“Market correction takes 18 to 24 months or so to correct once the economy starts to take.” It is starting. I feel like there is a market correction. I get notifications on my phone of all the places I am interested in purchasing a property. We are in the process of looking for a place to buy property. We have been in our RV traveling around, trying to figure out what we want to settle down. Everywhere I go, I’m like, “Let me put that on my list and watch properties.”
I am in from Austin and all over looking at all these properties. You can all do this too. I do Realtor.com and then set up the notifications. Daily, it will say how new houses came in and which houses came onto the property in the areas that I am interested in. Also, within the area that I am interested in, it tells me where all the price drops are. I am going to tell you all that there are a lot of price drops. The funniest thing is I have been in the real estate industry for many years. This time should be the booming time. This should be the time when you are selling those properties.
My goal when I was rehabbing the house would be to get that property on the market by Memorial Day. Memorial Day weekend is the week when everybody is out looking for houses. Our goal from February 2022 until June 2022 is to get those houses out and then be done by June 2022 because then it starts tapering off. It gets slower and then you do a couple here and there. The funniest thing is I would not consider the market slow. I would say that prices are dropping. The government is doing exactly what they are doing, which is increasing the interest rate so that it corrects the market.
At the same time, it kicks all the buyers that could not afford a first-time home. They are trying to correct it but it is going to be interesting to see what happens. “Do you think we should wait six months before buying?” No. You should still be buying too. The one thing I love about commercial real estate is that it is all based on income. You have to know what types of facilities to be looking for and what areas you should be focusing on. You still should be buying facilities. You do not want to be holding off. You have to figure out the location, the price and the type of facility that will sustain you over the next years. That is what it is.
Commercial real estate is all based on income. You just have to know what types of facilities to be looking for.
I do not know what markets you are interested in. You might be in Virginia but we have to look out into secondary to tertiary markets. I say secondary to tertiary markets because I know you are in the DC area. Secondary to tertiary markets are where you should be focusing. The areas typically that I teach and look in are perfect areas. Everything I teach, you could utilize over the next years. “Credit crunch is coming. Parts of the economy will suffer if they have debt. Interest rate is only the issue. Valuation will horrify opportunity for cash-rich buyers.” We have got debt on our facilities.
There is nothing wrong with having debt. We are trying to buy some facilities with debts. Going to the bank and getting loans, they are getting stricter. You have to be aware of that as well. They are going to require a bigger down payment. On the backend, the interest rate could be higher. I am not sure what the commercial rate versus the residential is. I do not know if it is going to get over 6% but the thing is I have borrowed private money to buy my deals. Typically, 6% to 10% interest is what I pay. For me, that is not a big deal.
I look for deals where I know I can afford that. That is what I look for. If you know that you are going to be paying a higher interest rate, then look for deals where you can afford a higher interest rate. That is it. You do not want to be chancy with numbers. You want to be realistic. I would not say conservative. There is a difference between conservative and realistic. Some people are way too conservative.
Sometimes I feel like Pete, my husband, is way too conservative. I am like, “You still have to take the chance and sometimes go for it.” There is that border. “Do you think it will be so tough that clients cannot pay the rent?” We got into that. Higher rents will be harder to pay. Lower rents are fine. I have been through COVID and I saw what it is. I talked to a couple of people. I talked to one lady on the phone and she was like, “This COVID screwed everything up. Vacant, people are moving out. I have not been able to charge. Everything got screwed up.”
I am thinking, “You must not know how to manage your property properly.” We gave everybody a second chance to pay everything off. She was not contactless at all. You would have to be there managing everything. You should be fine. You have to make sure that you come up with the right price that everybody can afford. You can test it as well too.
“What is your intuition on self-storage? Up and down, many years in real estate market, my opinion is that it will stay relative to the strongest fall but toughest times are coming.” Everybody knows my opinion. My opinion is that secondary and tertiary market facilities are going to be doing fine. The primary market is going to be struggling but with higher rents. That could be non-climate control or climate control. Another thing that I would consider is an all-climate controlled facility that you have to base yourself only on that. That would be something I am not going to buy.
That is more of a risk level. I feel like if you are going to base it on all climate control and your numbers on higher numbers, I would not be doing that. I would like to have a mix. It is okay to have a little bit of climate control and more non-climate but be in that price range. Your price range is going to be $100 to $200 on the high-end for climate control. It is hard for a lot of people to afford. If you are in a market where it is a higher-end market, then people will be able to afford more. Typical secondary and tertiary markets are what I am talking about.
“My research has shown that storage does very well in the downtimes. People move in and have storage displaced.” You are correct. That is the one thing I love about storage. You will be able to make money in the downturns and upturns. Be mindful of the price per unit because that is going to be the key. Affordability is going to be the word of the year.
“I found that he got better results when he raised funds first and then he was able to make all-cash offers and after stabilizing the project.” This is what I do with my fund as well too. I am raising the money and then getting out there and buying mismanaged facilities and then stabilizing those within the fund.
“If the housing market corrects, do you think that will reduce demand for storage in general?” No. There is always a demand for storage. It is also based on the price as well. There is always a demand for storage. The demand is getting more and more. New construction is also very good in secondary and tertiary markets as well. I feel like there is not enough storage out there so demand will always be high. In the primary market, it is going to be a little bit tougher because it is so over-saturated.
“How did you find out the percentage of profits that a complete unit produces?” That is either your IRR or your cash-on-cash return. Typically, cash-on-cash return is around 10% to 15% because everybody always asks me that. We are typically 10% to 15%. Every once in a while, we get higher than that. We typically do not ever go lower than that. We are 12%, 13%, 14%, 15% cash-on-cash return. You have to consider what your net is going to be. Everybody’s net is different because it is all based on your expenses and a whole bunch of factors.
People are like, “I am going to go buy an $800,000 facility. I want to make $100,000 that year.” It does not work that way. If you net 10%, you are doing good. Multifamily is also the same way. You should be happy with 10% to 15% net. When you are running your numbers, look at cash-on-cash returns, which are typically 10% and 15%, hoping to get more but that is where we are at. “What returns to offer equity investors?” I am going to jump off right here and go pitch my fund, StacyRossetti.com/Fund. Hop on there and listen to me pitching the fund. Anybody can come on and hear me out. You can learn about the offering.
Before we hop off, I want to remind everybody that the StorageNerds doors are open. If you want to talk to me, then go to StorageNerds.com. Go through the application funnel where you can get access to my calendar and we could talk about StorageNerds. If that is not something that you are interested in, if you are interested in the fund, then you can hop on StacyRossetti.com/Fund or go to StacyRossetti.com where you can find out all about me. I have all my coaching, courses, fund, free podcasts, training and all stuff right there. Go to my website so you can check me out there as well.
I appreciate you hanging in there, reading my spiel about the market. Overall, the summary is we are going to be fine, as long as you do not spend a lot of money on those units. That is going to be the hard part. To be sustainable, you have to be able to be affordable. Not to you but affordability to the tenants. It is what you have to keep in mind. Does that sound like something that would be affordable to the tenant in this market? In New York City, people can pay $500 a month. Can they pay that in Jacksonville? That is the question. Make sure you join the Facebook group, Super Simple Self-Storage. That is where we are answering questions and there are a lot of engagements. Take care. I will see you at the next session.
